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  • Brian E
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    Post count: 46

    I haven’t had a chance to put together a real instruction manual, so here are some pics if you haven’t got it figured out.

     

    There are a few options to adjust the width.  The arm mount can be slid out on the torsion housing a bit, and then the arm mounted on the outside of the spring plate if needed.  I also have some spacers to go between the hub and the spring plate if the wheels have a strange offset.  For most standard aftermarket wheels, the setup like the pictures are good.  Mock up one side and get the width right, then go do the other side.  If it gets much wider, I have CV spacers if needed.  There are 4 longer M14 bolts in there.  Those are to mount the lower shock mounts to the lower hub mount holes.  The other 4 smaller fine thread bolts are for the calipers.

     

    Let me know if you have any questions.

    Brian

    Type E Motorsports

    Brian E
    Participant
    Post count: 46

    Willy,

    Did you drive the bus home, or end up towing it?

    I was thinking about your setup on the way home, and I would suggest ditching the Scat ratio rockers as well.  The w120 isn’t exactly a “gentle” cam, and adding even 1.25 rockers will make the valve opening and closing even more harsh.  The only benefit of the 1.25 rockers is adding about 500rpm on the upper end of the power band, and that is not necessary for what you are doing.  Swap them for stock rockers on properly shimmed solid shafts, and it will be quiet, easy and sturdy.

    CB Panchito heads, 9.0:1, and a tight deck.  Pay the extra $$ for the CNC 60cc chambers, dual springs, CMoly retainers, and the matching as-cast manifolds.  I would also swap to CB HD aluminum push rods, so your valve lash stays consistent and doesn’t hammer the parts.  It will drive like a whole different engine from those heads you had before.

     

    It was good to see John and Gretchen again, and good to meet you Willy.  Hopefully next time we will be able to work in more time at the camp ground to hang out.  We did 2500miles in 8 days with 3 kids in the bus.

    Brian

    Type E Motorsports

    Brian E
    Participant
    Post count: 46
    in reply to: JJ's projects #51511

    Good to hear the bus is running good.

    Here are a couple of pics of my China diesel heater. I run it on “Kleen-heat” kerosine.  It burns cleaner and doesn’t smell like diesel. I get it at Ace hardware or menards.  I use about 1 gallon a week, and I run it a lot.  I put it in the spare tire well behind the seat of the shorty, and I ran the heat tube through the tool box under the seat. The black outlet vent swivels 180. With it pointed up at the windshield it works better than most any stock vw defrost.  Super hot air, and lots of air moving.  The fuel tank on mine is mounted in the treasure chest.  Only time I smell it is when it’s going through its cooling down cycle.  This is the second winter I have been using it. I figure for only $150, even if it only lasts 2 years I will be doing fine.

    Brian

    Brian E
    Participant
    Post count: 46
    in reply to: JJ's projects #50057

    Good plan.

    Make sure they are real Panchito’s with the CNC chamber option, and dual springs.  Not some off the shelf big valve head with a semi-hemi cut chamber.  I would also recommend CB lightweight lifters with the Web cam.

    Brian E
    Participant
    Post count: 46
    in reply to: JJ's projects #50031

    Good to hear the Kool-aid is getting passed around.  😆 😉

    Here is what I would do.

    New aluminum case

    84mm VW journal crank

    New AA THICK WALL 92mm P&C’s

    web218 advanced 2deg.

    9.0 compression

    CB Panchitos, with the 61cc chamber option, and dual springs.

    CB magnaspark dist kit.

    Using the CB online compression calculator that means you will need a .052″ deck height.  Not super ideal, but at least it isn’t .152″.  If you wanted to get slightly tricky, just turn a small 2cc dish in the piston tops on the lathe, and dial the deck down to .040″.  I do this on lots of engines.  Closer to .045″ the better for anti-pinging, crisp throttle response, lower head temps, and easier tuning.

    You will have a 2234cc with the thickest toughest cylinders available.  Off the shelf awesome coolest running heads available, the compression is matched to the cam, and your elevation.  You will need 91 gas when you get down to sea level, but it is worth the extra $3/tank, and the 91 is usually the stuff without ethanol.  Run it a 28deg. fully advanced.  This would be a twin to the giant limo bus engine I built.  Keep your big oil cooler, and make sure the engine is assembled correctly.  Correct bearing clearances make a huge difference in oil pressure.  NO high pressure chrome relief valve springs, and no giant 30mm oil pumps needed!!!!

     

    Remember….low compression doesn’t equal cooler running. 😉

     

    Now have another sip……. 😉 😉 😉

     

    Brian

     

    Brian E
    Participant
    Post count: 46
    in reply to: JJ's projects #50009

    It’s not new info.  It has been around, and it has been proven to work.

    John has had some bad luck with his engine combo’s, and I have built and tested a few of what I feel is a super solid heavy bus engine combo.  I just thought I would offer my suggestion of what I know will work, and has been working quite well for a long time in different buses.  50k miles in 4 summers on a 6500lbs double decker bus is not an easy on any engine, but this combo has survived with no major issues.

    Always wanting to learn more, I would like to hear about your tall Vs. short deck height testing and thoughts.  🙂

     

    Brian E
    Participant
    Post count: 46
    in reply to: JJ's projects #50005

    I know you guys aren’t big fans of other people’s suggestions…..but speaking from experience……make sure the Panchitos you get have the CNC chamber option.  Yes, they are more $$ and might take a bit longer to get, but I have run both CNC and non-CNC on my flow bench, and the non-CNC version doesn’t even flow their advertised numbers.  They choke early because the intake valve is very shrouded as it is meant to be run in an stock 85mm bore as cast.  The CNC option will also increase the chamber volume a bunch so you won’t have to run a giant deck height.  The CNC’s I have used did flow very close to their advertised numbers, and the engines I have used them on all worked really well.  The CB castings are really nice, super clean fins, and they weight a ton compared to an AA or empi casting.   Get their as cast panchito manifolds as well.  They are cheap and the manifolds have a BIG effect on how the heads work.

    I would also skip the 1 1/2″ and go straight for the 1 5/8″ header.  A guy we both know has an almost identical engine to mine, with the same exact heads I built for both.  He has 1 1/2″ exhaust, I have 1 5/8″.  We both road trip our buses and run the shit out of them.  He had exhaust issues and cracked a head inside the exhaust port.  My heavier bay and a 1 5/8″ header is still fine.  I am 90% sure his smaller header is making the heads run hotter.

    The 1 5/8″ will also allow you to use the NEW big 1 5/8″ heater boxes WITH FINS INSIDE.  You can have your cake and eat it too.  1 5/8″exhaust and good heat.  You might loose a touch of low end torque, but in a bus, getting the heat out of the heads is far more important.

    You mentioned you like how the kombi runs, and it has a web 218 cam.  Why not run a 218 in this engine?  It is about the best low revving, long lasting torque cam I have found.

    These suggestions are all coming from experience gained from building and testing quite a few hard used, and lasting engines.  Do what you want with the suggestions.  😉

    Brian

    Brian E
    Participant
    Post count: 46
    Brian E
    Participant
    Post count: 46
    in reply to: JJ's projects #49427

    If you are gonna rebuild the 2332, run the CB panchitos heads, and get the CNC chamber option at 63cc, so you can run 9.0 and .045″ deck height.  Order the matching cast manifolds at the same time

    The panchitos castings are amazing and built to cool better. No flashing, extra fins and way heavier.  They also have killer airspeed, and that is what makes torque.  More money for sure, but worth it. Power is in the heads, and in this case, also better cooling.

    I am a huge fan of the Web 218 for buses, and it would I be perfect for what you are wanting to do.  Some Engle cams are OK, but most were designed in the early ’70’s and adapted from other engines.  The Web stuff is way more modern, and makes more power without extra noise or wear

    The 1 5/8 heater boxes will work aweosme and perfect for what you are after.

    Make sure your guy dials in the deck height to .045″ and doesn’t just slap it together where ever it lands.  Details are important!!

    Gearing is super important.  The engine needs to be about 3200rpm at cruising speed for max cooling.  Having the peak torque just above your cruising speed also keeps the engine cruising where it’s most efficient, and cools best.  The Web 218 in my 2332 quits revving at about 5300rpm, and peak torque is about 4000rpm.

    It’s all about the entire package from the carbs down to the tires. Every component in between needs to be matched, and it all needs to be planned out to work together.

    Where is your cooler mounted now?

    Just a few suggestions to think about.  I don’t know much, but I do have some successful big bus engines under my belt, with quite a few hard miles on them.  I learn something new from every one, and I always try to continue to improve them each time.

    Brian

    Brian E
    Participant
    Post count: 46
    in reply to: JJ's projects #49097

    I like Josh’s idea!  IRS, 2332’s, and cheap diesel heaters all kick ass… 😛

    Brian E
    Participant
    Post count: 46
    in reply to: JJ's projects #48804

    I guess I would rather have a quick look and know everything is OK, or know I need to slow down a bit rather than wait till it is way too hot and doing damage unknowingly.  Maybe the no gauge thing falls under the “ignorance is bliss” category?  😆 😆

    By the time it smells hot….it’s already way too hot…

     

    Brian

    Brian E
    Participant
    Post count: 46
    in reply to: JJ's projects #48781

    Good work!

    The specs look rather similar to the first VW engine I built.

    Bare minimum put an oil temp dipstick in there.  I wont send an engine out without one unless I know they have a gauge in the car.  Better to see a problem before it becomes a real problem.  They are cheap, super easy, and work quite well.

    Brian

    Brian E
    Participant
    Post count: 46
    in reply to: JJ's projects #48400

    Disclaimer……..These are my opinions, based on tons of research, and lots of engine building, head building, experimenting, and trying different combo’s.  I have never built the same engine combo twice.  I always change at least one thing hoping to make the next combo better, and learn from each combo.

    A tight deck is not the cure all for running cool, it is just one of the many things that help contribute to an efficient burn in the chamber.  The more efficient the entire combo is, the more power it will make with less heat.  It has been known for 100 years a tight deck has many more benefits than a .100″ deck.  It is also know that too low of compression will build heat rather than building power.  Without sufficient compression the incoming fuel mix is slow moving and collects in the chamber edges rather than staying atomized.  This makes for a super slow burn needing way more timing advance, and sends most of the power out the tailpipe in un-burned hydrocarbons.  Same reason semi-hemi heads need 36-38deg. advance to make any power.  Slow burning flame needs a lot of time to get all of the power out of it.

    Lots of guys get into trouble trying to put a w110 cam into 1600 with 8.0cr.  The cam is too big for the small CC’s, the low compression makes for a very soggy bottom end and very slow burn.  The huge down low load with almost no bottom end power, and a slow hard to light mixture makes it super easy to detonate.

    The compression needs to match the cam duration , elevation, octane rating, and intake valve closing point.  Along with a tight deck, the higher compression makes the incoming mixture stay atomized in the chamber, and keeps it from collecting around the edges of the chamber and up on the squish bands.  This makes for a quick, efficient burn that needs less timing advance, and less advance means less negative work on the top of the piston.  Being at high elevation makes the low compression even worse.  Not much air up there to even compress.

    I always build with the intention of using 91 octane.  The higher the compression, the higher the octane needs to be to keep detonation down, but the higher compression also makes way more power, and if it is done correctly the heat isn’t an issue.  I think the extra $2-3 per tank is worth the extra power for sure.  Low compression, and in-efficiency is causing the engine to work extra hard, creating more heat.

    If you run modern style heads, you can have the best of everything.  The new AA500 heads, and the CNC panchitos have 60+cc chambers.  After un-shrouding the valves on a 40×35 AA500 heads, I end up with 65cc.  On a 94×84, .040″ deck, 65cc chambers, you end up with a perfect 9.1cr.  This is what Josh B. is running on his bus, and he hauls ass all over in it.

    The entire engine needs to be designed with a specific use in mind, and each part needs to complement each other.  One wrong component can mess up the whole package.  Not all the parts are available off the shelf.  I think 1 1/2″ heater boxes would be perfect for a 1968-2180cc bus engine, but you would need to get some, cut them open and add fins to them so they makes some heat.  I would not run stock boxes on anything larger than a 1915cc.  Too much of a plug, holding too much heat in the heads, and messing up the combo.

    Here is an engine load for you…This is a local guys limo bus I built the engine for.

    Its a monster, and it weights about 5500lbs, and then it gets 8-12 girls (sometimes “larger” women) added almost every time it heads out.  He does wine tours and bachelorette parties in it.  He has to pull the steepest longest hill around here to get to the wineries.  He also has to run 60mph up and down a highway for an hour to get to Deadwood.  He has a big oil cooler under it with no fan.  He has been running it for 5 years now, and averages about 10k miles a year.  I just took it apart last winter for a preventative maintenance since it is his money maker each summer.  I replaced the P&C set while it was apart, and recut the valve seats.  This was at 45k miles.  That is about the standard service interval for a valve job on a factory VW engine.  I did need to do a line bore on the case because of the crank flex from the huge load.  The center main started to get looser than I want.  I knew this would be a problem when I built it, but we figured by the time the case needs to be cut a few times, the rest of the bus will have fallen apart around the engine.  The next one will get T4 main journals on the crank.

    Here is the bullet proof combo I did for the limo bus.

    New aluminum bubble top case

    84mm crank. VW journals

    AA 92 Thick walls, grant cast rings

    5.4″ Scat I beams

    Web 218, set on 106lc.  CB light lifters.

    Aluminum push rods

    CB CNC panchito’s heads.  I swapped the springs to a single with a flat wound inner damper.

    40mm IDF’s w/ 34mm vents

    Stock flywheel, KEP S2 plate

    1 5/8″ header

    Grooved lifters

    26mm oil pump

    8.7cr, .045″ deck, 63cc chambers, 2cc dish in the pistons.

    It starts making power as soon as the clutch is let out, and it’s done at 5200rpm.  Peak torque is made right at 4000rpm…just over cruising speed.

    A similar engine in John’s bus would be amazing.

     

    So……build it how you want….but take each part into consideration.  All parts need to work together within the same power band, and they all need to work together.  Take the time to modify some parts if needed.  The power is in the heads, and any one wrong part can screw the whole thing.  You cant just toss a part into the mix because you used it in the past, or you have it on the shelf.  Don’t just use a cam because that’s what everyone is using.  Get the combo right, and make sure all the small details are put into the build, and it will live a long, powerful and cool life.   An oil temp gauge also helps you get there….. 😉

     

    Its all in the part combo…

     

    Brian

    Brian E
    Participant
    Post count: 46
    in reply to: JJ's projects #48372

    John, whats your tire size, and R&P in the trans? Big nut or small nut?

    What MPH do you like to cruise the highway at?

    I want to do some math.  I think I have an idea that might be causing some of your heat issues.

     

    Brian

    Brian E
    Participant
    Post count: 46
    in reply to: JJ's projects #48359

    doing full throttle up wolf creek pass in 3rd gear the whole way 10 miles or so….. yeah…. it got hot… you can’t make that kind of power, without heat.. can’t be done…. 2332 full throttle up a steep hill in a bus…. no way to control that kind of heat…

    Been there, done that….😁

    I kindly disagree.😉 I did 65mph the whole way up passing people.  I drive the poor old girl like a 16year old.  4000rpm every shift.  I like to think of it as product testing.  I like to drive them way harder than most customers would.  When I got to the top the oil temp was barely 220.

    Still the exact same engine. 10k miles, lots of Colorado and Wyoming passes. I know it’s not anywhere near JJ mileage, but it gets more harder miles than most old buses, and it just keeps cranking away.

    I would recommend not doing the stock valves. I will do the math tomorrow, but I am guessing it will be choked close to 4000rpm. Unable to breath any higher because of the small cross section of the valve seat.  Bare minimum do a 37×33 head. They work amazing when built correctly, and you can still just barely use a stock heater box.  If you do insist on stock valves, the AA500 heads from AA Performance have a 60cc chamber and actually flow pretty good with a bowl clean up and a really good 3angle valve job.

     

    Brian

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 45 total)