my single cab with type 3 suspension

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K Leake
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Re: my single cab with type 3 suspension

Postby K Leake » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:32 am

I have a 1955 in my single cab. If I ever need to change it , I would like to do a subi. Will a 2.5 turbo fit ?
Kevin

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john jones
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Re: my single cab with type 3 suspension

Postby john jones » Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:16 pm

you guys have all gone subi fucking crazy,... [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X [-X

buy a subi if you want a subi... :-# :-# :-# :-# :-# :-# :-# :-#
if you keep going in circles.. Your never gonna get anywhere :-k :-k :-k :-k :-k :-k :-k :-k

63single
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Re: my single cab with type 3 suspension

Postby 63single » Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:28 pm

Kevin, a 2.5 will fit, but you will have to start cutting into the sheetmetal.
JJ, i'll take you for a ride in this thing and we will see what you say after that. If you havent ridden in a bus with a suby you dont know..... O:) i know youll be at Octo.......so will I. Ill be down south friday evening to Monday, any time you want a ride you just say the word.....

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Re: my single cab with type 3 suspension

Postby john jones » Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:32 pm

what I don't know can't hurt me.. :-# :-# :-# :-# :-# :-# :-# :-# :-# :-# :-# :-# :-# :-# :-# :-# :-# :-# :-# :-#
if you keep going in circles.. Your never gonna get anywhere :-k :-k :-k :-k :-k :-k :-k :-k

63single
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Re: my single cab with type 3 suspension

Postby 63single » Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:03 pm

Lol! The world isnt flat anymore man..... \:D/

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andym
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Re: my single cab with type 3 suspension

Postby andym » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:32 pm

^^^^ this shit is funny!!!! Both Aran and jj
Andy In Modesto
"one shot, one opportunity, are you gonna capture it?"

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Franz
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Re: my single cab with type 3 suspension

Postby Franz » Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:09 am

Why do subarus sound so much differnt than an aircooled VW? Its almost the same engine in layout. What is the firing order degree seperation on a subaru? Is #1 and #3 on opposite TDC? What does a Subaru crank look like?

I need to get to the bottom of this. Smile

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BBWB
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Re: my single cab with type 3 suspension

Postby BBWB » Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:33 am

According to the inter-web, 1-3-2-4. VW is 1-4-3-2 yes?

Interesting read:

The Four-Cylinder Boxer Engine's Distinct Sound

or "Why does my new Subaru sound like an old Volkswagen?"

After purchasing a new 2.5L 4-cylinder Subaru, I was curious why the sound reminded me of old rear-engined Volkswagens, and seemed so distinct from inline 4-cylinder engines. Other than the flat-four cylinder configuration, my new Subaru's water-cooled OHC engine had far more in common with any typical inline-four than with the air-cooled push-rod engine in a Volkswagen Squareback.

Yet that's what its sound reminds me of. Most people don't even notice this distinction, and those who do, didn't know what caused it.

Here's one reference to this distinct sound I found in Wikipedia's description of the Volkswagen Vanagon:

This [Wasserboxer] engine is representative of the fact that boxer 4 cylinders produce a low pitch rumble, rather than a high pitch buzz/whine, when running. Some find this aspect of the engine to be pleasing, owing to the dislike of the "sewing machine" sound of I4 engines.

But why do they sound different? Both an inline-4 and boxer-4 have four even-firing cylinders, so why should they sound so distinct when running at the same RPM? This mystery bugged me for years.

The answer finally came to me while sitting at an outdoor cafe and hearing the cars pass by. I believe the distinct sound is due to the crankshaft and exhaust manifold designs required by the flat-four's cylinder orientation.



The Engines
HowStuffWorks® graphically illustrates the piston strokes of an inline 4 and a flat 4 boxer.
rear-mounted VW engine (top view)
front

rear-drive axle
transmission
---------
3 |[]--I--[]| 1
| I |
4 | []-I-[] | 2
---------


Volkswagen firing order: 1-4-3-2

front-mounted Subaru engine (top view)
front
---------
2 |[]--I--[]| 1
| I |
4 | []-I-[] | 3
---------
transmission
front-drive axle


Subaru firing order: 1-3-2-4

While VW and Subaru have different nominal firing orders, they also number their cylinder locations differently. So in fact they are exact mirror images. Their respective crankshafts run in opposite directions likely due to their transmissions mounted fore versus aft.

So here's why they sound distinct...
The key thing to note is that while a boxer-4 does alternate firing fore and aft cylinders, it does not evenly alternate firing between its left and right cylinder banks. It cannot due to the 180 degree orientation of crankshaft pins selected for balance. So instead it must fire twice on one side and then twice on the other. And unlike an inline-4, a boxer-4 must have two separate exhaust manifolds (or expensive bulky header pipes).
One manifold exhausts [fire, fire, wait, wait] while the other side exhausts [wait, wait, fire, fire].

So in addition to the evenly spaced firing of each cylinder (just as from an inline-4) the boxer-4 has exhaust pulses exiting the left and right manifolds at half that frequency. This cadence is perceived as a half-pitch "rumble".

And here's how to make them sound like an ordinary inline-4...
Instead of collecting the left bank's exhaust pulses into one manifold and the right bank's into a separate manifold, connect each cylinder's exhaust port to an independent header pipe (of four equal lengths if you want a perfectly even cadence) before tieing them all togther to the tail pipe.


Thanks
to Noémi for making possible the vacation which allowed me the leisure to ponder and document trivia like this!
Controversy and Debate!
In an on-line forum, one individual characterized my conjecture here (I don't think he was referring to ignition timing ;-) as "retarded". In short, he maintains that the distinct boxer-4 sound is due entirely to the "uneven length runners" of the exhaust manifolds. You may read the entire "retarded" quote as well as reponses (none mine) to that post here.
What I believe the poster failed to take into account is that exhaust pressure pulses are not instantaneous spikes, but rather have significant duration. Each pressure pulse must be at least as long as its respective exhaust valve is open, with the restriction of the muffler and tail pipe stretching out its decay. Within any exhaust pipe or manifold, each exhaust pulse begins, builds, peaks, and decays. Considering one manifold's [fire,fire,wait,wait]: the tail of the first "fire" pulse has much more opportunity to overlap with the beginning of the second "fire" pulse than the tail of the second does with the beginning of the first (due to the intervening wait,wait). To the degree the two fire pulses tend to overlap somewhat, they form a [ FIRE , WAIT ] pressure pattern in each manifold which is half the frequency... sometimes referred to as a "rumble" sound which is superimposed upon the normal fire,fire,fire,fire sound in common with an ordinary inline-4 engine.

Future work:
•To verify my conjecture, record the exhaust notes of an inline-4 and boxer-4 at the same RPM, and compare their respective frequency spectrums.
•Learn how to edit Wikipedia and add this information to Flat Engine or Flat-4.

Links to more Subaru stuff:
•Joe Spitz's cars101 Subaru information research site
•A ridiculous and stupid comparison of the 2.5 RS to the AMC AMX from self-proclaimed authorities of the unconscionable, unethical and immoral

Send comments to "webmaster" at this domain. [HOME]
Let me draw you a fucking picture!

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GTV
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Re: my single cab with type 3 suspension

Postby GTV » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:48 am

I don't think a Subaru sounds anything like a VW. I have heard a few Subaru's with equal length headers that sounded a LOT better than the stock junk.
Living!

63single
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Re: my single cab with type 3 suspension

Postby 63single » Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:04 pm

Im not sure that its all about the sound, ( I LOVE the sound though ) I think it's also about the power characteristics. The subi FEELS exactly like a vw motor. Except that it is smoother and quieter. But the torque and the powerband feel similar (seat of the pants feel). Thats what I think is the best part. It feels like the big brother to the aircooled motor.

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way2cool
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Re: my single cab with type 3 suspension

Postby way2cool » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:10 am

Thanks for sharing..I have often wondered about the difference ,and voila...all is revealed !!!
Reads like a Dr. Julius Sumner Miller segment..."Why Is It So" ?
Obviously penned by a good Zorstologist
KIM -----------------
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Franz
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Re: my single cab with type 3 suspension

Postby Franz » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:15 am

So if I'm reading that correctly. The firing order is exactly the same. Subaru numbers the cylinders different, and starts the firing order on a different cylinder is all.

Considering the similarities, I do not think a VW and Subaru sound much alike. Subaru's have more gurgle or something. Maybe it the overhead cam/head design.

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andym
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Re: my single cab with type 3 suspension

Postby andym » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:35 am

Yes Franz it's the same as a Vw crank. I think the sound comes from the cams. Being that it has 2 or 4 cams it can open/close at a different time. I don't think you can make a Vw sound the same being that the 1 cam controls all the valves/push rods.
It's the cams, not the exhaust, not the firing order. It's just like a Vw, 2 up 2 down.
Andy In Modesto
"one shot, one opportunity, are you gonna capture it?"

63single
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Re: my single cab with type 3 suspension

Postby 63single » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:08 pm

Im a simple man, i like simple things. Heres my take on it, subarus sound AND run super awesome. Aircooled engines sound AND run not as super awesome. Thats all I need to know. Lol

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alykat
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Re: my single cab with type 3 suspension

Postby alykat » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:12 pm

63single wrote:Im a simple man, i like simple things. Heres my take on it, subarus sound AND run super awesome. Aircooled engines sound AND run not as super awesome. Thats all I need to know. Lol

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> Reckon that about says it all. Smile
Last edited by alykat on Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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